OFM #71: What’s good for Mom is good for the kids

Cross-Posted on http://www.monstercookies.ca

For the past year or more I have read Scott Adams’s blog, “The Dilbert Blog”. He has very strong opinions on lots of topics, many different than my own but he makes very strong cases for his controversial positions so I find myself considering them. Last summer he wrote a post in which he talks about people taking something he has said, twisting it, making an assumption about what they think he said and then arguing against that imaginary position. He refers to it as getting angry about their hallucinations of his opinions.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/04/my_new_favorite.html

It seems that Tom and I (and our listeners) may have been guilty of that a little bit.

On the topic of “Crying It Out”, we have taken opposing viewpoints and then attributed extreme hallucinatory extensions of the opinion to each other and/or others who don’t agree with us. Let me set the record straight.

1) While we said that we have used Cry It Out with our children, we never actually had to go through the whole process. We let one of our 3 sons cry for up to an hour one night and realized it wasn’t going to work for him. The others fell asleep much better. We are open to the concept but wouldn’t be able to listen to our child cry all night. Putting him through that wouldn’t be worth sleeping through the night sooner. There will be plenty of time for sleeping after they are grown and moved out.

2) I didn’t say that Tom and Tanel are spoiling their children or that the kids have no rules. I agree that listening to your child and knowing the difference between whining and full distress is of great importance. I understand that you don’t go running in at the first whimper to pick up the child (though I have known parents that do).

3) Though I did state that “if Crying It Out works for you, you should use it”, I wouldn’t chain my kids in the closet to keep them in their bedroom (though some nights that sounds like a good idea). Just like in extrapolating your opinion to a ridiculous end, you wouldn’t give your kids their every heart’s desire to the point where you are buying them ponies or monster trucks or a B-52 every weekend.

4) I will agree that Canadians are quite nice. I’d like to keep it that way. I think you would like to keep it that way too. The last time Canadians were pushed into being not-so nice with the Americans was what is known as The War of 1812. When Canadians came down to Washington and burned down the White House and the Capitol building. Maybe it’s best if we just drink our strong beer, play our self-refereed curling, and remain polite, calm, and nice.

Jon

Jon,

Great comment. Some of what I said in the podcast was just for laughs (obviously the closet comment) and much, as I stated, was NOT specifically from your podcast or comments you made. The point about “spoiling” was actually from something I’ve heard many people say including (if memory serves) one of the comments you read on your podcast. I think this is a great point of discussion and I know that my stance is one that makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

I linked up your podcast not because it was the sole motivator for the conversation (it wasn’t) but because you’ve been nice enough to link us up and mention us a number of times. Tanel and I were discussing a number of the points that we made long before I listened to your discussion. Remember, you seem to be in the majority so many of the examples are not actually of you - but they are real world examples.

It’s obvious to me why this strikes a cord with so many people - they’ve been taught to believe that crying it out is OK so they did it (these are general statements now - not about you). Maybe it worked for them after a night and maybe it didn’t. But somewhere, in the back of their minds, they thought, “God, that baby is really crying… I should go to him…” and then stopped themselves. They stopped themselves because on some level they were led to believe that if they DIDN’T cry it out, they were failures as parents. Now along comes Tom and Tanel who are saying they if they DIDN’T go to their child they were failures as parents. Of course they don’t want to hear that.

But there is a group of people out there that either haven’t done the cry it out method yet and are planning to or tried it and quit that need to hear our point of view. Parents need to be empowered to make their own decisions especially when the data is so murky about the benefits of crying it out. When you’ve got all your friends (especially the ones without children) telling you one thing, sometimes all you need is a sole dissenter (us) to allow you to do what you feel is right. When Tanel was feeling like Punkalicious needed to breastfeed longer than 6 months and all her friends were telling her that she should stop, all it took was one person (my mom) to empower her to go on. And believe me, that’s a decision that she’ll never regret.

As I have been listening to these podcasts and reading posts, it has got me thinking about my own kids and where we are. We did do the Cry it Out process, I think we may have used some elements here and there, but never the specific sturcture.

HOWEVER, my kids are now 4 1/2 and 6 1/2. Older girl, younger brother. My boy likes nothing better in this world than to annoy his sister. Obviously fights and screaming ensue. I try to distinguish when someone is really hurt or have issues. But I find myself more and more yelling from the kitchen “WORK IT OUT! I don’t want to hear it!”

Any thoughts on how this does or does not relate to “Cry it Out?”

How did I totally miss this comment? We talked about it on the podcast but generally, I agree with you. There is a HUGE difference between letting a child that is old enough to understand what is happening cry a bit (or fight a bit as the case may be) and doing that to an infant that really only knows that their needs aren’t being met. One is probably beneficial while the other… isn’t.

Jon - I wouldn’t chain my kids in the closet to keep them in their bedroom (though some nights that sounds like a good idea). Just like in extrapolating your opinion to a ridiculous end

After reading back over this, I can’t believe you thought that chaining a kid up in a closet wasn’t the “ridiculous end!”